tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post446047485074025094..comments2024-03-18T09:00:31.992-04:00Comments on Doctor Grumpy in the House: Can't we all just get along?Grumpy, M.D.http://www.blogger.com/profile/09858110332436246760noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-37858799781528887322012-03-04T18:16:24.553-05:002012-03-04T18:16:24.553-05:00Thank you.Thank you.Jennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15597630887713954960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-87809377618578142992011-12-12T08:10:04.395-05:002011-12-12T08:10:04.395-05:00My degree is political science and I think I can g...My degree is political science and I think I can give you some insight into your question of why politicians act in such a polarized fashion.<br /><br />The main reason is that as a society we have increasingly sorted ourselves political beliefs. We do this because of confirmation bias in our information seeking. We gather news from sources we're more likely to agree with & associate mainly with people we agree with. More importantly though, we have sorted ourselves geographically. States are known as liberal or conservative. Liberals tend to move to liberal states and conservatives to conservative states. The same is true for cities, and for neighborhoods within cities. <br /><br />Every city has areas that are known as conservative or liberal parts. This sorting has a number of effects. One of them is that when people only interact with people with similar beliefs, as a group they tend to move farther in the direction of their shared beliefs. Conservative groups get more conservative, liberal groups get more liberal. Another effect is that in these areas the most radical members tend to become the leaders. A conservative leader is likely to be more conservative than his followers, & a liberal leader more liberal. <br /><br />The other significant effect of the "great sort" is that once people have divided themselves geographically it's easy to build political districts that have predictable partisan results. Politicians love nothing more than a safe district. They are also the ones who draw district boundaries. <br /><br />Once a district is a "safe" partisan district, the politician who represents it has an incentive to pay attention only to the party controlling it. For the reasons mentioned above, the district as a whole is likely to tend toward more extreme positions as a result of being homogenous, & the politician is likely to be more conservative or liberal than the average resident. <br /><br />Once you get these people together, they're unlikely to like the other side much, and the politicians themselves aren't going to be used to dealing with people who have opposite opinions. They're a product of very homogenous districts where everyone agrees with each other and competes to get farther from the political center. <br /><br />The great sorting also applies to the political parties. Liberal Republicans used to exist. They don't anymore. Conservative Democrats used to be a major power in the party. They still exist, but have are on the threatened, if not the endangered list. This has lessened the perceived need for cooperation as it used to be that politicians would have a party, but still need to represent people on both sides of the divide. This is much less true than before, and basically not true of Republicans. <br /><br />There are political science studies showing that members of one party want more compromise (Grumpy's) than the other (Pissy's). There are social science studies showing one party's members are more committed to consuming only partisan news (Pissy's) compared to the other which is more likely to consume a wider variety of news (Grumpy's). Not to say that either is free of confirmation bias- we all are subject to it. My assignment of you and Pissy to political parties is my best guess based on what I have read here. I could be wrong.<br /><br />What you are doing with Pissy is the antidote. Continued contact with people from the other side of the poltical fence causes people to stay closer to the poltical center and be more open both to compromise and to seeing the opposite view. It's the force that works against all that I wrote above. If you want a less polarized country, continued discussions of the type you have with Pissy is the way to achieve it.Learned Handnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-950655972596754202010-08-30T00:22:50.218-04:002010-08-30T00:22:50.218-04:00I would only argue that most governments weren'...I would only argue that most governments weren't founded on the idea of negotiation and compromise.jdcroft2001dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-31990245882947344442010-08-26T20:57:05.277-04:002010-08-26T20:57:05.277-04:00Screaming and yelling ... isn't in the best in...<i>Screaming and yelling ... isn't in the best interests of any group as a whole.</i><br /><br />No. But they're not elected by any group as a whole.<br /><br />And the thing that gets them "hired" and rehired is how effective they are at campaigning, not what they do after election. Nobody pays attention to that. So we've got professional campaigners, not professional legislators.<br /><br />"Campaign" originally referred to military action. A quiet, deliberative military action with a solution reached by compromise wouldn't be much of a victory, now would it?quixotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12650030894065858444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-31412520248977406772010-08-25T21:45:39.112-04:002010-08-25T21:45:39.112-04:00Because many politicians are old enough to have fo...Because many politicians are old enough to have forgotten about, and the rest are too young to have learned about Henry Clay, "The Great Compromiser".<br /><br />(Disclaimer: Mr Sawyer, my high school US history teacher, excelled in his profession. However, I respectfully invoke my 5th Amendment rights WRT when I was in high school.) <br /><br />WV: ethenge - the illness experienced after bad anesthesia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-35301633238244402582010-08-25T06:04:15.251-04:002010-08-25T06:04:15.251-04:00With you 100% here. Classic rant! Right on the mo...With you 100% here. Classic rant! Right on the money!<br />(Can we settle our differences on other points while we build some sand-castles?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-67093706684860316992010-08-24T21:14:27.655-04:002010-08-24T21:14:27.655-04:00So you and Dr. Pissy are on opposite sides of the ...<i>So you and Dr. Pissy are on opposite sides of the political fence, huh? I really hope you are on the "right" (wing) side of that fence.</i><br /><br />Well done anon. You're exactly what Dr Grumpy is referring to. <br /><br />Old MD Girl- actually, the US is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.Juleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17260044140161891802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-45401579123275071852010-08-24T10:06:56.788-04:002010-08-24T10:06:56.788-04:00Very well said Dr. Grumpy. I too take "news ...Very well said Dr. Grumpy. I too take "news vacations" like Frantic mentioned because I just am so frustrated with poilitics and I don't want to learn about all of the latest wars/murders/robberies etc. in my area and across the country and the world. The news is too depressing! <br /><br />If you and Dr. Pissy are actually are able to discuss ideas and work out solutions to problems instead of finger pointing and bickering among yourselves then you just aren't politician material lol. To really prepare yourself for office you must constantly belittle the other side of the political isle and be sure to overspend like drunken sailors when you do actually get elected. That seems to be the other key to being a good politician: spending a shitload of money that doesn't actually exist to be spent in the first place!The Redheaded Pharmacistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-25592596636899176862010-08-24T09:34:15.058-04:002010-08-24T09:34:15.058-04:00Well said my friendWell said my friendPOOHPAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17599452138632535698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-1769694796724165052010-08-24T09:03:54.958-04:002010-08-24T09:03:54.958-04:00Mind you guys - you think your lot are bad but loo...Mind you guys - you think your lot are bad but look what they have here in Italy! Berlusconi is mind-boggling at times - heck, what do I mean at times? All the time! I've not come across any other politician who decided to have skin-peeling done covered by the excuse someone attacked him with a model of a cathedral! Look at the before and after pictures from last Christmas for evidence. He blatantly changes the law to suit his latest delict so he can't be prosecuted. And still the ordinary man (and woman) in the street votes for him. They're just beginning to realise though...Eileenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02684985554953836607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-31173658654318474862010-08-24T07:31:29.533-04:002010-08-24T07:31:29.533-04:00I usually chalk it up to the fact that humans are ...I usually chalk it up to the fact that humans are kinda dumb in large groups. That seems to be when our worst traits fight their way up to the surface. Plus historically hasn't it been shown that the easiest way to control a large initially diverse group of people has been to make them angry and/or afraid?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-83647940668271203292010-08-24T02:33:39.361-04:002010-08-24T02:33:39.361-04:00"4+" mean the maximum as in 4+ pitting e..."4+" mean the maximum as in 4+ pitting edema.<br />MR is Mental Retardation.ERPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15973334581468131595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-15329876353088965512010-08-24T01:52:44.687-04:002010-08-24T01:52:44.687-04:00Good points in the post and comments. It IS depres...Good points in the post and comments. It IS depressing!terri chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09398808840234914275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-79277337327020000582010-08-23T19:07:25.214-04:002010-08-23T19:07:25.214-04:00well put grumpy. excellent thread. i agree with th...well put grumpy. excellent thread. i agree with those who are more amazed that we do it as well as we do. even the periclean athenians could not get it right. as omdg and mao point out, usually all poweer comes from the barrel of a gun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-22286283857823574642010-08-23T18:37:22.676-04:002010-08-23T18:37:22.676-04:00for the most part politicians these days are only ...for the most part politicians these days are only interested in getting relected therefore they spout what they believe their electorate wants to hear. the days of having the interest of their country's (state etc)future at heart are gone. short term popular fixes are in mode. no pain no gain is definitely out. it is the era of the political animal and the demise of the statesman.<br />a pox on all their houses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-17419564123481633902010-08-23T17:40:26.927-04:002010-08-23T17:40:26.927-04:00All of you are right on-track -- unfortunately we ...All of you are right on-track -- unfortunately we accept all of this because:<br />a)we're too busy trying to make ends meet without involving ourselves in trying to fix the current situation;or<br />b)we are working 60 hours a week to keep our jobs;or<br />c)we're out of work and desperately trying to find work:or<br />d)we hope the politicos will finally discover that we're not as stupid as they think we are and will clean up their acts;or<br />e)someone (NOT the tea partiers)will start a revolution that will stop all the corruption and bribery; or<br />f)all of the above...<br /><br />And we haven't even touched on the Supreme Court's decision that corporations are people!<br /><br />It's maddenly frustrating. We point our fingers at the corruption in foreign governments and yet it's okay for our legislators to take bribes from everyone to ensure their re-election ad infinitum. The caliber of individuals running for office is low -- they're all weasels! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!Classof65https://www.blogger.com/profile/15620524862669295761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-34621514979279479112010-08-23T17:05:31.759-04:002010-08-23T17:05:31.759-04:00I subscribe to the Douglas Adams view of politics:...I subscribe to the Douglas Adams view of politics:<br /><br />"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President [or Senator, or whatever] should on no account be allowed to do the job."JoAnna Wahlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09942928659520676271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-91275005060281422072010-08-23T17:02:32.286-04:002010-08-23T17:02:32.286-04:00I think what it all boils down to is that a lot of...I think what it all boils down to is that a lot of people do not know how to properly carry out a debate or know what to do when they are at a stalemate with the opposing side. They are also not as in control of their emotions as they might think.<br /><br />By the way, some of those talking head shows are toxic. They slowly brainwashed my (now ex) fiance and were even affecting me. He HAD to watch them EVERY weeknight. Dumping me and taking his crazy views with him was the best thing he did for me.<br /><br />WV: CokediraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-83899147097955958842010-08-23T16:56:09.235-04:002010-08-23T16:56:09.235-04:00I just made my first ever contribution to a politi...I just made my first ever contribution to a politician, Al Franken, simply because he stood up in public and said that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion or philosophy, but no one is entitled to make up their own facts. I don't live anywhere near his state but I don't care. He's smart, he's always prepared and he is more concerned about protecting the public than getting re-elected. It's not about the party, it's about the character of the person.He's worth watching regardless of your party ties.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-39010838148050821122010-08-23T16:52:12.075-04:002010-08-23T16:52:12.075-04:00Q: "So why is it that, as soon as someone ac...Q: "So why is it that, as soon as someone actually gets elected, they revert to a preschool level of immaturity?"<br /><br />A: "Screaming and yelling may get you favor with whatever local groups whose ass you're kissing"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-83360423685361972172010-08-23T16:47:23.699-04:002010-08-23T16:47:23.699-04:00Remember two words -- JOB SECURITY. If I am your ...Remember two words -- JOB SECURITY. If I am your elected representative, and you don't like how the government is being run, you are going to fire me, no matter how nice and polite I am... UNLESS I can convince you that the "other guy" is even worse than I am. So Job Security dictates that I'll spend most of my time in office making you fear the opposition.<br /><br />Term limits won't really help this problem, either. They'll just force me to always be interviewing for the next job. This means that party loyalty is more important than ever, since I won't always be able to campaign on the strength of incumbency.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03437454442186656528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-43238000214382017372010-08-23T16:01:17.399-04:002010-08-23T16:01:17.399-04:00As someone who researches politics professionally,...As someone who researches politics professionally, most politicians are type A raging egomaniacs.JTNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-13690452375727823172010-08-23T14:40:04.182-04:002010-08-23T14:40:04.182-04:00Many excellent comments here... here's some mo...Many excellent comments here... here's some more despairing blather: The problem with politicians is how they combine the dark side of human nature with the fact that we've (and no, I'm not quite sure who the 'we' is here) managed to invent a creature called the "career politician." These creatures may set out with starry eyes and good intentions, but the legislative/executive milieu and the political process interact to corrupt them--not absolutely, but certainly inevitably. The notion of the "citizen representative," someone who serves for a few years and then goes back to the farm/business/whatever, died a swift death, and what replaced it is... hacks. Just keeping the Job, that sweet, high-paying, power-laden job, becomes the prime directive. Add to that the ability to vote yourself your own compensation (!!), the perpetuation of the tarradiddle about the need to 'keep seasoned, experienced public servants in office,' and add a generous, greasy topping of special interests/lobbyists and their Really Big Bucks, and you get...what we've got now. On both sides of the aisle, and in every state capital and beyond. TL:DR -- "Public Servants," my ass.Captain Foulenoughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-71943026491397108692010-08-23T13:43:10.439-04:002010-08-23T13:43:10.439-04:00@ERP - what does 4+ MR mean?@ERP - what does 4+ MR mean?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5883634615775822475.post-14642026577029514982010-08-23T12:29:16.586-04:002010-08-23T12:29:16.586-04:00Look at that idiot Ben Quayle. Can he say or do a...Look at that idiot Ben Quayle. Can he say or do anything that is not some juvenile attack? Well, his Dad had 4+ MR so I guess the apple does not fall too far from the tree. <br />Still, I get it that in order to drum up voter rage, etc you have to be all fire and brimstone. Compromise is totally boring to the uneducated, simplistic voter mass. <br />Sorry, ironically that was kind of a rant anyway....ERPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15973334581468131595noreply@blogger.com